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Atenea

Debate Time: Griselda's Last Appearance? Figment or Ghost?

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So, we all know what happens in the end of that episode? Good! We get to be introduce to that specific floor where the dead players are remembered, a cemetery of some sort. My question is after the whole case has been crack, what is your opinion concerning the appearance of Griselda at the end of the episode?

Do you think she was an actual Ghost? Both Asuna and Kirito see her, so maybe not a figment of their imagination- since they never even met Griselda nor they knew how she looked like. Do you think that she might have been remembered by the system or just perhaps stayed in a limbo within it, causing her to appear to them?

Thoughts!

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I'm just going to throw in my two cents and say that the Griselda they saw in the cemetery was more like a "ghost" than a figment of their imagination. There are a few things that lead me to this conclusion. First, you stated that both Kirito and Asuna saw Griselda and that knocks the figment idea out of the running already. There is a possibility for synchronized hallucinations, but I doubt they took any form of drugs and also doubt that anyone drugged them prior to them reaching the cemetery. Secondly, I believe that although people die in the game, their data is still stored as information on a hard drive located in Kayaba Akihiko's lab. He states, after Kirito's victory, that there is a mainframe solely dedicated to SAO on the fifth-level basement of his corporate headquarters. With this in mind, you can see why it would be plausible for people's information, regardless of death, would be stored on something concrete.

The overall idea stems from the belief that things you "delete" on the internet are still stored somewhere on some hard drive and it won't fully be deleted for a very long time; sometimes never at all unless someone were to destroy the hardware carrying the information. Now, we see near the end that Kirito comes back by force of will and beats death to deliver the final blow to Heathcliff, also known as Kayaba Akihiko. If it is possible for him, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be possible for anyone else with a strong force of will to "return" to the living for a brief moment of time. It is said that people who are heavily wronged sometimes "linger" and roam this earth as "ghosts" or "spirits." Griselda was heavily wronged by people she fully trusted, and I believe that she stayed around and revealed herself when everything was settled. In essence, the whole light show she put on was her accepting her death and moving on like everyone else. Again, this is all just speculation and nothing can really be proven, unless the creator comes forward and outright says what happened!

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I'm just going to throw in my two cents and say that the Griselda they saw in the cemetery was more like a "ghost" than a figment of their imagination. There are a few things that lead me to this conclusion. First, you stated that both Kirito and Asuna saw Griselda and that knocks the figment idea out of the running already. There is a possibility for synchronized hallucinations, but I doubt they took any form of drugs and also doubt that anyone drugged them prior to them reaching the cemetery. Secondly, I believe that although people die in the game, their data is still stored as information on a hard drive located in Kayaba Akihiko's lab. He states, after Kirito's victory, that there is a mainframe solely dedicated to SAO on the fifth-level basement of his corporate headquarters. With this in mind, you can see why it would be plausible for people's information, regardless of death, would be stored on something concrete.

The overall idea stems from the belief that things you "delete" on the internet are still stored somewhere on some hard drive and it won't fully be deleted for a very long time; sometimes never at all unless someone were to destroy the hardware carrying the information. Now, we see near the end that Kirito comes back by force of will and beats death to deliver the final blow to Heathcliff, also known as Kayaba Akihiko. If it is possible for him, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be possible for anyone else with a strong force of will to "return" to the living for a brief moment of time. It is said that people who are heavily wronged sometimes "linger" and roam this earth as "ghosts" or "spirits." Griselda was heavily wronged by people she fully trusted, and I believe that she stayed around and revealed herself when everything was settled. In essence, the whole light show she put on was her accepting her death and moving on like everyone else. Again, this is all just speculation and nothing can really be proven, unless the creator comes forward and outright says what happened!

Kenji, I know that I might have mentioned this before to you, but I like how you think! This would make even more sense than the theory of her being a figment of their imagination, plus it would explain so much how they would recognize her since no one ever describe the way she look to them- just how she was as a player and person. Through the memories of the other guild members is how us the viewers get to see Griselda, so I really really love your theory and I second it!

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Awh thanks! I just like being thorough with my investigations, which is primarily my reason for wanting to become a forensic technician and work in a lab one day for some law enforcement agency! But, yes! Who Kirito and Asuna see is just a figure amidst a blinding light, while we as viewers get to see Griselda. This is also reinforced by the idea of the story being told in a third-person omniscient narration. Well, I would argue that it's more third-person close narration; "close" describing the viewer's relationship with Kirito, but that will be saved for a later discussion!

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I want to believe it as a ghost, because who's to say a game of death can't become haunted? Objects all around us are "haunted", and followed by ghosts, wouldn't you think a game of 4,000+ deaths would have some ghosts lingering around it? Also, Kayaba performed a technique himself, imprinting his consciousness into the game, even taking it with Kirito when he entered ALO, so I don't see how her data, or spirit, or whatever caused her to stay wouldn't be a viable outcome.

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I want to believe it as a ghost, because who's to say a game of death can't become haunted? Objects all around us are "haunted", and followed by ghosts, wouldn't you think a game of 4,000+ deaths would have some ghosts lingering around it? Also, Kayaba performed a technique himself, imprinting his consciousness into the game, even taking it with Kirito when he entered ALO, so I don't see how her data, or spirit, or whatever caused her to stay wouldn't be a viable outcome.

Late! Very late for this, but actually another good point and a perfect example. Although supposedly he had transferred his being into the game, perhaps with all those who died it happened the same? =O

I think that SAO recorded the image of each player and depending on certain circumstances and on certain ocassions and certain places it displays a mermory like thing

Definitely something like this!

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Has anyone seen Doctor who? If you haven't, there is this one episode where these guys are in suits and they end up getting eaten by shadows but their life energy is still kept in the real world for a few minutes. I think that is what happened, just a leftover clinging to her nervegear.

Also since I watched the dub first I thought it GrrZelda.

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Has anyone seen Doctor who? If you haven't, there is this one episode where these guys are in suits and they end up getting eaten by shadows but their life energy is still kept in the real world for a few minutes. I think that is what happened, just a leftover clinging to her nervegear.

Also since I watched the dub first I thought it GrrZelda.

GrrZelda sounds very metal XD I like that! (lol)

Also, that's one very interesting interpretation. Mainly because it could be possible after whole Akihiko incident. By the way, which episode of Dr. Who was this?

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GrrZelda sounds very metal XD I like that! (lol)

Also, that's one very interesting interpretation. Mainly because it could be possible after whole Akihiko incident. By the way, which episode of Dr. Who was this?

It was "Silence in the Library" the first appearance (and technically last appearance..... spoilers) of River Song. Now throwing in my opinion let me first quote from iRobot.

There have always been ghosts in the machine. Random segments of code, that have grouped together to form unexpected protocols....

Now the whole quote is actually pertaining to the freewill of animatronics but the first part which I've used does have some relevance. Once something is stored online it's pretty much impossible to destroy every trace of it. Governments have tried and failed every time. THe internet is just too strong of an entity these days to be stopped. Fragments of data you delete from your hard drive will always be there. You can clear your hard drive but almost everything you do can be brought back by the best of the best. So it stands safe to say the possibility of a ghostly being. After all what about Kayaba at the end of Fairy Dance?

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It was "Silence in the Library" the first appearance (and technically last appearance..... spoilers) of River Song. Now throwing in my opinion let me first quote from iRobot.

Now the whole quote is actually pertaining to the freewill of animatronics but the first part which I've used does have some relevance. Once something is stored online it's pretty much impossible to destroy every trace of it. Governments have tried and failed every time. THe internet is just too strong of an entity these days to be stopped. Fragments of data you delete from your hard drive will always be there. You can clear your hard drive but almost everything you do can be brought back by the best of the best. So it stands safe to say the possibility of a ghostly being. After all what about Kayaba at the end of Fairy Dance?

Danke danke! <3<3<3

I don't know why but this somehow reminded me of Ghose in the Machine. Anywho, that's some great points to make Miaki <3

What makes me wonder though is...Do you think that the 300 players that got stuck in ALO could have possibly been some of the ones who died during the battle with the last boss before Heathcliff?

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My theory is this, much like in Fallout New Vegas, the system scans the players avatar and player information and programs a haulogram to behave and act as the real player. For I beieve the Cardinal system does it to make player think that ghosts exist, or it could be that the system wishes to keep the memory of those players within the data code. For I would like to at least remember them, but to have the system scan and copy the players entire system coding and then converting that data into either Binary or Hex coding, would be incredible. It could be me rambling on about that, but I think that Kayaba wants all players to be remembered, as such he programmed the Cardianal system to simultaniously while turning a persons grey-matter into a scrambled egg, to copy there conscience into the game, like he did to himself at the end of the Sword Art Arc.

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Guest Meokka   
Guest Meokka

Well considering the item that brings people back to life. It says within what 10 seconds? That would mean they are not killed instantly. 

We also see in the anime a place where their minds are stored. What if no one *dies* persay. At least not right away.

I've wondered how SAO does maintanance. How do bugs get fixed. Why doesn't Kirito really ever get in trouble for having Yue who is technically a bug now? Why doesn't he get killed instantly for having her? Maybe the system can't. Seeing as Kayaba is in the game. 

Kayaba can make himself and anyone else an immortal object is one of his abilities. So if no human is telling the code to do a data dump or anything then what happens to the people? Maybe they're placed in that room. 

Those that were killed outright were zapped and they then died. 

So for Griselda what if her mind wasn't placed the storage unit, at least not YET. So her data go deleted, or did it? Because she was married to what's his face he got her items automatically. What if that causes the bug. The AI that kills off people *If that's what it really does* doesn't put her in that room to do a data dump. Instead it lets her live because those items are still coded to herself and her husband. 

But that would mean she'd die withen 10 seconds after what's his face's death. Not that she'd know that, you look dead, you should be dead, you except that mentality and act like a ghost.

 

Though I love the data slipping through too. Which is kind the same as my crack theory above XD.

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Well considering the item that brings people back to life. It says within what 10 seconds? That would mean they are not killed instantly. 

We also see in the anime a place where their minds are stored. What if no one *dies* persay. At least not right away.

I've wondered how SAO does maintanance. How do bugs get fixed. Why doesn't Kirito really ever get in trouble for having Yue who is technically a bug now? Why doesn't he get killed instantly for having her? Maybe the system can't. Seeing as Kayaba is in the game. 

Kayaba can make himself and anyone else an immortal object is one of his abilities. So if no human is telling the code to do a data dump or anything then what happens to the people? Maybe they're placed in that room. 

Those that were killed outright were zapped and they then died. 

So for Griselda what if her mind wasn't placed the storage unit, at least not YET. So her data go deleted, or did it? Because she was married to what's his face he got her items automatically. What if that causes the bug. The AI that kills off people *If that's what it really does* doesn't put her in that room to do a data dump. Instead it lets her live because those items are still coded to herself and her husband. 

But that would mean she'd die withen 10 seconds after what's his face's death. Not that she'd know that, you look dead, you should be dead, you except that mentality and act like a ghost.

 

Though I love the data slipping through too. Which is kind the same as my crack theory above XD.

I love how we have awesome people like you who think this stuff up! XD

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Much like what people, said there's something about the data. There's most likely something about data being created. There's a floor specifically created for the dead players (Cross Hill) and it is basically the resting place for them. I would personally say that the players' personalities and actions are created or recreated from what the system has recorded about the player. Or rather, since the system already knows what everyone looks like, it recreates their image. For example, what I'd call a "shadow" image. When a "shadow" image is made, the data is only a copy. Without the personality or possibility of speaking, it is shown through the appearance of Griselda. If they decided to keep these shadow copies, it would prove invaluable for certain game mechanics.

Example of a shadow copy in SAO would probably be the Christmas boss of the anime. You can see that Kirito basically disappears into a different area. Whether or not this is a game mechanic, it is certainly a disjointed area. This area can be used as a "shadow" copy (or a copy of the real area itself). The game only has to get data from the shadow copy when an event is performed. Thus, SAO isn't just a single area, it is linked altogether with multiple places. One area linking to the other.

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