Can we PLEASE get some rules on PKing

[Crimsa 0]

Before anyone else is killed for stupid reasons or none at all, can staff actually give us official rules on Player Killing instead of what to do IF you kill a player?.

 

[Baldur 0]

Well, until a couple months ago, PKing was consensual. You had to get the player's permission to kill their character. We could always go back to that.

Then it was changed to make it more exciting and to allow PKs to happen more I guess? And the rules were changed so that entering into a thread meant that you were giving consent to being PKed by another player in that thread.

Your best bet is to use Safeguard potions whenever you're in a thread with someone you don't trust. To be most specific, if you don't trust that other character in your thread with your life, you should act as if they're someone who could attack you at any moment. I guess that makes it more "realistic" to if you were in a death game. People were kinda cavalier towards Orange Players before this.

Supposedly (Before Lycan retired) staff was working on cleaning up and clearing up the rules to be more clear. I'll try to use my Player Rep status to make sure this is given more thought than it currently has in the rules.

Assuming: A) we don't want to go back to the way it was, and B) the way it is is too extreme, what would you like to see as a middle ground?

[Amira 0]

May I point out that Teayre attacked people weakened by a mob? Meaning that a safeguard is useless. All the person needs to do is summon some mobs to get rid of it.

[Nikodemus_Blackwood 1]

I think it needs to be changed... but how is the main issue many will have a problem with.

 

Do we have a seperate thread column like Frontlines, but for PKing only? Do we force all PKers to be apart of a PK guild and that they cannot take part in threads without specific intent that they will not PK? Make a PK require GM permission after a long drawn out debate on if that works for the character? Make PKing only viable via permission? Make PKing viable against NPC spawned players? Restrict it so that PKs can only happen in Open Parties outside of the safezones, and then classify that all Boss raids are PP's and must be signed up for in a safezone? Make it so that when attempting a PK, they must ask permission once again? Make it so that there can be no one shot PKs? (A permanent safeguard mechanic on players V. other players for the first turn)?

 

How is the main issue? How do we fix PKing? The whole mechanic in SAO is that when you are outside safeones, your not safe. But this is not an MMORPG, this is essentially a Play by Post Pen and Paper RPG. Because of that, PVP and PKing is a difficult and in most cases is too cut and dry of an issue.

[Mack 0]

In response to Everyone:

If you've not already seen the Status Update, I have asked people to refrain from adding PK to any threads where PK is not going on at the moment. So, I am NOT asking anyone to refrain from PKing again in the current Boss Fight, I am asking you all to NOT PK in any other threads for now. Those rules need to be overhauled, re-written, and clarified. I am going to jump on getting those rules done pronto so we can get them properly rolled out. That is why I have ASKED that players refrain from adding more threads with PK in the short-term. I'm sure you can all understand the headache of rolling out a set of rules to address an issue while a bunch of active threads involving that same issue are ongoing. Then it becomes a huge headache trying to organize who did what when.

I am also happy to consider input and ideas for fixing the PK system from the players. More eyes and more ideas isn't a bad thing in my opinion.

In response to Baldur:

Yes, a complete rules overhaul/edit is in the works and is being worked on. Please remember we have a LOT of rules and game mechanics and everything else to address. This takes time, but it is being worked on. I know, because I'm one of the people working on it.

In response to Nikodemus:

Yes, you hit the nail on the head. The how and the mechanics of the thing. If SAO were like, for example, GGO or ALO then this wouldn't be an issue since PK would only be an inconvenience. However, SAO is unique compared to the other two in that it is a perma-death PK game with no Respawn.

[Seul 1]

Perfect solution: Make PvP consensual again and get ALO back up and running so we can kill without worry! :,D

Jokes aside though, it's tricky. In my opinion, it might not be worth preserving the likeness of the show (with danger and all that jazz) if it's killing off members who have been here for years and have contributed to the site.

It's also counterproductive to actually finishing the game to have everyone get killed at some point. But the biggest factor for me is what Manta mentioned about people being able to target you for things that occur OOC. Why just the other day I saw one of the higher levels threaten to kill someone who couldn't even use T2 gear for talking about their friend. That's not cool by any means, we all put time into developing our characters and giving people the power to just end yours at any given time for no reason (or for reasons outside of the actual RP) is butt.

Then there was when Dom killed off those two newbs. Why? Just cause he could. You think people like being weak? No- But they don't have a choice in the matter for obvious reasons. It only adds insult to injury to be another death (at the hands of a jerk who just feels like killing you for lolz, monster kills are fine by me).

To be here for a year (or even like a day) and get killed off by someone else is basically the largest 'f*ck you' the site could possibly give to someone who willingly devotes their time to playing here.

Idunno, maybe it's just me.

Other suggestions include:

Making PvP follow a different combat system. Like... Give people a chance to defend themselves or something- Maybe implement a reaction time type of dice check. That way if someone attacks, instead of making the damage calculations instant they'd be done on the opponents turn after checks and stuff are made. That way someone can have a chance to parry (it'd become roll based so it's not OP) or something.

On a different note, maybe also look into making the character salvaging mechanic an actual thing so that high level people aren't forced to start at level 1 again if they do die.

I'm not sure if any of this actually made sense.xD

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Seul

[Takao 0]

It should be pretty obvious by now that PKing is taking away from the community more than it gives. At some point, breaking canon is necessary, and PKing as it stands is not as crucial to the SAO Universe as most people think. It was an element that was present in the story, yes, but there are also plenty of other elements present in the story that are not present in SAO-RPG because they just don't work. It's causing strife in the community, and because of that, it shouldn't be present and should be abolished. Preserving canon is pointless if we're losing members over it.

So, my suggestion would be to only allow for user-players to PK other user-players in either duels, or with OOC consent. Meaning both parties must agree to it out of character, not through in character actions. User-players could still PK non-player characters for the sake of keeping the element present for storytelling aspects, but otherwise the bloodbath going on currently would be stopped.

Ultimately, the question that needs to be posed is this: Is the PvP/PK Mechanic worth more than the members we lose because of it?

[Zandra 0]

Agree with Takao. Remove pking, unless if both parts are agreeing on it.

[Teion 0]

There's another rules topic that I wanted to throw my two cents in. In the current boss fight, I'm actually very confused with the reason that Macradon was ruled to have not been hit by Teayre's AoE attack. Logically, it makes sense: he was pulled away to a different part of the room and was no longer close enough to the party to have been hit by such an attack. But strictly speaking, from a rules perspective, that shouldn't matter. Since there are no rules on 'range', I understood that anyone or anything that exists in a thread is a valid target for AoE, regardless of RP circumstances.

Personally, I'm relieved that Macradon didn't lose his character as well, but I feel like I have to play devil's advocate and voice my concern for a lack of a range system. I know this is a rare case, but does staff have any thoughts on developing or implementing something like this? Or would any future situations have to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis?

[Seul 1]

2 minutes ago, Teion said:

There's another rules topic that I wanted to throw my two cents in. In the current boss fight, I'm actually very confused with the reason that Macradon was ruled to have not been hit by Teayre's AoE attack. Logically, it makes sense: he was pulled away to a different part of the room and was no longer close enough to the party to have been hit by such an attack. But strictly speaking, from a rules perspective, that shouldn't matter. Since there are no rules on 'range', I understood that anyone or anything that exists in a thread is a valid target for AoE, regardless of RP circumstances.

Personally, I'm relieved that Macradon didn't lose his character as well, but I feel like I have to play devil's advocate and voice my concern for a lack of a range system. I know this is a rare case, but does staff have any thoughts on developing or implementing something like this? Or would any future situations have to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis?

I thought about this too actually-

Going back to the Dom thing if I remember right one of the people he killed argued that they were out of range and then everyone was like it doesn't matter but now when someone important dies it does matter? Which is it? Also if we're going with the logic that Mac couldn't be hit from Teayre's AoE because of the distance then he shouldn't have taken damage from the boss AoE that landed in the middle of the first group (which he wasn't with at the time of the attack because of the whole pillar chain thing). 

I don't think a full-fledged range system is needed though since there's no magic or bows or anything that'd be used from a distance like there are in ALO. Just clearer stuff on how AoE works.

[Rain 0]

On 5/26/2016 at 9:17 PM, Seul said:

I thought about this too actually-

Going back to the Dom thing if I remember right one of the people he killed argued that they were out of range and then everyone was like it doesn't matter but now when someone important dies it does matter? Which is it? Also if we're going with the logic that Mac couldn't be hit from Teayre's AoE because of the distance then he shouldn't have taken damage from the boss AoE that landed in the middle of the first group (which he wasn't with at the time of the attack because of the whole pillar chain thing). 

I don't think a full-fledged range system is needed though since there's no magic or bows or anything that'd be used from a distance like there are in ALO. Just clearer stuff on how AoE works.

Well.. if Mac was pulled from his group should he be considered in a group of his own for the time being? That would the most logical sense with having to add range into the system. So he shouldn't be hit by the group 1 aoe

Edited June 1, 2016 by Rain