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Which combat system would you rather see stick as the official one?  

8 members have voted

  1. 1. Which combat system would you rather see stick as the official one?

    • 3.0's Current System
    • PT's System

This poll is closed to new votes

Heyo everyone. Seeing as the playtest event is over, it's time to gather feedback. As you can see above, there's a poll on whichever system you prefer and would like to say. Please note that whichever system is decided to be overall the more desired of the two will stick around, in place of the other. That means if the playtest is found to be better overall, we'll be intergrating it into the site officially. We want to hear your opinions on the event, the combat and any crtisisms/improvements you may have for us, so please, note them down in the replies alongside your vote, if possible.

As for the event, while it's over, players still have up to the 25th of July, 23:59ET to close any and all playtest related threads. Any threads submitted for closure past that will not be rewarded with mon or anything more than the standard rewards and loot obtained in said thread. Additionally, now would be a good time to head over by the event's page and take a look at Mintaka's Treasury and spend your mon. That's all for now- go ham. ^^

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Firstly, I'd like to say that I think that the Playtest system was masterfully made, the best system for balancing weapons that I've ever seen and I've been around since the first sword art was created. I think NIGHT and ChaseR need a serious round of applause and a crispy set of high fives for. The only thing I'm worried about with this new system is that certain enhancements becoming just far too powerful and some that have always been relatively underpowered. 

3.02 System Change Proposal
Note: All changes made are considered only if the PT Sword Art System is Implemented.  

► Holy and Fallen Damage
                 Reduce Effect from (2 per slot * Tier) to (1 per slot * Tier)

Holy and Fallen are way too powerful due to their incredible ability to scale with tier and multiplier. With the new PT system, even the ST-I and AOE-I sword arts are stronger than the 2.6 and 3.0 versions in most cases with the addition of specializing. With this increase, Holy and Fallen are too powerful to not use. For good measure, compare them to another enhancement that is widely considered to be one of the greats: Phase. The maximum mitigation that players are going to face up against is 200 or so. Against a target with 200 MIT, Phase can be considered to be a flat +100 DMG. This is essentially Phase's maximum output as it drastically downscales as the opponents does. However, a single slot of T4 Holy or Fallen on an ST-B deals +184 DMG (8*23) regardless of an opponents MIT. This is absolutely broken. I understand this is a major drawback to characters who focus on these enhancements (myself included) but we can't disagree with the fact that they are breaking the game and making content impossible to balance. As we progress through the game, this problem will only elevate.

► PT Stamina
                     
Increase effect from -2 EN of all attacks to -3

Stamina is worth having for everyone, but honestly -2 is lackluster for the cost of SP. It'd be nice for an extra -1 EN. 


► PT Precision
               Decrease effect from +2 ACC to +1 ACC.

With the ability to choose both Precision and Ferocity, there is no longer a point for this being +2 ACC. With this in place, the amount of ACC a player can have is just far too insane. I think this needs to be drawn back so that it isn't worth a Rare Equipment piece. Nimble doesn't even match this and it requires a Mod slot instead of just a cheap add-on. 


► Combat Shift: Rounder
                   
Change effect to: +2 to all Sword Art multipliers, +3 to EN cost.  No other Shifts may be taken.

Rounder isn't even seen a potential option thanks to how lackluster it is. Buff it up a bit, give it a higher additional cost and a couple player's may take some interest. If this is too powerful, increase the EN cost to 4.

 

► Absolute Accuracy
                        Change: Counts as a slot of ACC towards the cap. 

Once again, ACC is far too high, capping off currently at 10 (maybe 11, I might've missed a statue or some other random buff or skill) and Abs. ACC not only makes it impossible to miss, but also increases that amount even higher. Not as OP as Holy or Fallen, but it definitely serves as a powerful tool.

 

► Paralytic Venom (OFF.)

                       Add: -1 EVA to opponents for 1 turn who are immune to paralysis

I understand that Para. Venom has the highest range to activate; however, nearly every single boss is immune to Paralysis which makes Para. Venom the only unique disabling enhancement that does nothing to an immune target as typically, the bonus damage from Freeze is allowed through (which I agree with.) A little something for Para. Venom would be nice as it is one of the least used unique enhancements.

► Purify

                        Add: Removes all Debuffs as well
 

 


 

New Enhancements:


► Efficiency? 
Cost: 1 Slot
Cap: 3 Slots
Availability: Trinkets, Weapons
Adds +1 CD to an attacks roll, making it easier to activate ST-B
 

► Absolute Evasion
Cost: 1 Slot
Cap: 1 Slot
Availability: Cloth Armor
Effect: Enemy Minor Critical attacks (9 or 8 with Focus) no longer automatically hit. Gain +1 EVA. Counts towards the EVA enhancement cap. 

 

 


 

Hiding Skill and Stealth Changes:

Sorry, I RP a stealth character, ignore these if you want honestly. 

► Blindside and Untraceable
                            Remove Blindside and give Untraceable Blindside's +2 to Stealth Rating

Blindside is honestly the worst mod in the entire game if not for its +2 to stealth rating which is the only important thing about the mod then nobody would ever pick it up. -1 ACC on a critical attack from stealth is garbage. Crits from stealth don't even happen enough for me to remember the mod. Just trash it entirely and give Untraceable (which is only good for RP purposes honestly) the love it deserves. 

 

► Mechanical Change to Vanish 

Vanish is a free action that a player activates at the beginning of their turn, rolls against a opponents stealth detection, and then attacks. The way this sounds roleplay wise is just really weird. I stealth and then actively hide against the opponent? No, it needs to be changed. 

The only reason Vanish is still this way is because there was some individuals against the idea of End-Turn Free-actions. The problem with this is that Vanish needs to be an End-Turn free action. As it stands, Vanish is literally just auto-hit expensive charge. It makes no use of thematical stealth and hiding from an opponent at all. 

Change Vanish to activate at the end of a turn where instead it becomes more of a defensive mechanic than pure offense. The opposing side will then roll their search roll against the stealthed player. (That actually makes sense doesn't it? The searcher looking for the hiding player instead of hiding away from someone's search.) This gives Stealth what it was intended to do, to be able to avoid damage occasionally. Since Stealth is intended mostly for Cloth Armor (the armor with far less durability) it inherently makes so much more sense. 

Of course, this would also mean that Vanish-on-kill would activate immediately instead of the next turn (which also just flows so much smoother)

And for those that could be against this change, I may remind you that this would just change Vanish to act like Stealth since a normal stealth activation would cause the enemy to search instead of rolling against their search rating. 

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From what I could tell the system in PT works gloriously, what looked to be the main goal here was diversity in build allocation. Focus, was the shining gem in this, producing a whole new avenue for DoT based non-stealth characters and I would like this sort of 'what if' outlook extended into more weird character types one wouldn't think existed. To expand on what was stated above by Hidden, I will work down the line and add my two cents:

Holy/Fallen: Although there is a flat +184 DMG increase on Holy & Fallen, it's best not to forget that these are not only unique but have an activation range that a player cannot alter their roll into or out of. Damage 3 is 12*23=276 DMG raw whenever the player hits. Phase however may be +100 DMG against a target with 200 mit, if you roll a 9-10. The actual Effective Damage is as follows:

1: 0
2: 0
3: 0
4: 0
5: 0
6: 0
7: 0
8: 0
9: 100
10: 100
AVG: 20 DMG

Applying the same formula to Fallen (55.2 AVG DMG) or Holy (36.8 AVG DMG) shows that it's in the activation ranges that these skills are weaker than flat damage enhancements. It's hard to notice when you trigger it, it just looks like too much damage, when your actual bottom line is tiny by comparison to 90% (Hit rate) of Core Damage 3 (276*.9=248.4 AVG DMG). The best example is Heavy Momentum, 2*Slot*Tier per miss forever until you hit looks like way too much damage, until you realize that this only has an activation range akin to that of holy (20%, aka crits only if evasion, 50% without mob evasion). In a way, Heavy Momentum is already stronger then both these enhancements, given that if you connect it will discharge all the stored damage which stacks and the activation range instead of being 20~30% is 'if hit then nuke'

PT Stamina: Agreed, simply put, the investment needs to feel impactful. A reason to choose it over something else.

PT Precision: For the reason above, I believe it should stay +2 ACC. Yes players can hit absurd accuracy levels, but they have to sacrifice two very important things for this (Mod slots, Weapon Enhancement Slots) Which include bottom line raw enhancements (Athletics, Holy, Fallen, Damage all go in these very limited slots). Choice to be fully accurate and maintain a better baseline should be an option, forgo huge numbers for more consistency. 10% accuracy isn't quite as valuable as 20% and personally, I'd never take precision if it is at a +1 which is basically weaker than a kitchen buff on a rare food.

Absolute Accuracy: Moving this up, given it's in the same vein as the above statement, AA should be isolated and beside standard accuracy. It's unique, it's not auto hit, given some mobs can and will either parry it or enter stealth or what have you. It is only placeable on the weapon of a player, in one of the few 4 slots the player has on their primary weapons. For the same reason Holy is so strong, this should be as well and by ignoring typical accuracy conventions (Baldur in mind here) he's sacrificed big numbers for consistent numbers. With it hitting a shared cap, people will forgo the interesting unique and stick to +3 Core on a trinket and we will see even a larger influx into the 'meta' (Holy, Fallen)

Combat Shift: Rounder Given no one chose Rounder that I noticed, given it was so lack luster, I am inclined to agree

Paralytic Venom (OFF.)/Paralyze: This is always been a 'goof' in the system. I am a firm believer that any choice the player makes in their gear or skills should be meaningful, and this includes the most valuable gear modification a player owns (Their weapon). These enhancements as written are virtually useless, in the areas you can use it they aren't needed. In the areas where you would need them, everything is immune to it. Creating some 'resistance' instead of a flat immunity should be the case. Making all content immune to such effects renders these enhancements worthless.

Purify: Simply put, yes. Given that enemies that are immune to status effects (Paralyze) or DoT's (Burn) tend to have immunity to debuffs the system is treating them as Status effects, so Purify should remove them.

Efficiency: Yes and no, I can do that, right? Referring to Focus, why not make this an SP skill. By placing it into enhancement slot, you're forcing build 'cookie cutting' instead of building up the game's versatility. Make more things, not less things. If a player can look at the tutorial and go 'Oh I can do this + this + this thing, and do this!' it will only encourage longevity and interest. SP skill, something that you have a few of and yet isn't only 4 of them. Something to work towards and choose over something else, create an identity for the player mechanically. Instead of it being bound to a piece of gear.

Absolute Evasion: I am either the most qualified to speak about this, or shouldn't be based on the fact I could be considered biased. Here we go, Instead I will give you both sides of my perspective:

1. If it exists, its unique. Plain and simple
2. Only applicable on Cloth/Light (Following the same vein as AA)
3. Shouldn't adhere to evasion caps (Just like AA)
4. Focus should ignore this (It isn't AA, so it shouldn't be treated as AA)
5. IF we want something to function like this for Focus, it needs to be a skill and mirror what it's up against
6. This is a value with a visible ceiling, only so much accuracy and evasion matters. In most cases 3 and 4 (Eva and ACC respectively) and usually anything more than this is nothing short of overkill, caps are irrelevant.
7. This is unique in this scenario, so it should like AA ignore typical conventions. Having your evasion negated (Paralyze) should leave this active regardless of state.

Blindside: is worthless, and I only take it for +2 Stealth Rating and narrative purposes, keep it and make it better. Maybe make the skill reduce potential damage, linger like a debuff or something. One turn is basically inert for a mod slot, which of course is finite.

Assassin: Same thing as above, Assassin doesn't scale well and is weaker than its counterpart by an absurd margin. Even charge which takes a significant less amount of SP to get into does quite a bit more then this skill. I'd like to see it bumped to 2*Tier Base. Putting it in line with HM. 1*Tier is simply less than charge, with huge SP cost and conditions that are much harder to hit.

Mechanical Change to Vanish: Yes, Vanish takes a damn phone book of rules to use ATM. It also makes little narrative sense if you enter stealth and then immediately break it.

Sword Arts Available: Now that I've covered what's above, this is some new points. Simply put, Players need to have access to prior rank sword arts at cap (Rank 5) given blowing 200 damage and 10 EN on something with 2 remaining HP is not fun, it's not interesting. It only works to create fluff when you crap out your stamina faster. Narratively you could breathe on the enemy lying face first on the floor, and it will die here, so why are you emptying out 10% of your stamina to poke it?

Conclusion: I would have liked to see the PT last longer, and introduce more and more changes that the game needs right now. Interest is at an all-time low and that stems from: confusion, change, difficulty, content, value.

Confusion: People cannot wrap their heads around everything in 3.0 because it isn't stagnant and most of what is, is 'subject to change'. Why learn it and spend the time figuring it out if the rug under your feet is going to be ripped out from beneath you, and you'll be starting from scratch.

Change: The rug being pulled, people don't know where they stand. No one knows what to do, what gear to farm or what to build. Because everything is subject to change, the player base is holding its breath waiting for answers to come.

Difficulty: 2.6 was easier, 3.0 is not. The game has been around for ages, and even still we have only managed 25% of the floors. The need for fluffing this content with difficulty is simply not present, the need for weakening the player base does not exist. It already is taking far too long to make any sort of progress, and the nerfs that were rolled out only increased something that needed to decrease. Some might have wanted things harder, and I hardly speak for everyone, but IMO the game needed to get easier if interest was intended to be held. Everything was nigh impossible in 2.6, where entry level was extreme (50+). To make everyone baseline (31) and in the same breathe make everything harder to complete when the frontlines struggles to find and produce 6 people for a raid is interesting. This is true in all of 3.0's mechanics I've seen so far (Scents of the wild, Gatherer, Mitigation, Black Iron Dungeon, Essence of Titanium). It was as if everything was made with A unique slot 12 character in mind, where only these players can even participate.

Content: DPS or broke, interest is waning because if you're a level 1. Better get a weapon skill rank 5, better do all these quests alone. It's not encouraged to branch out, it's not encouraged to build what you want. Quests come down to escort this dork to this place and kill the thing. We have to be more creative than this, where's the intrigue, the smarter quests where it isn't insert sword into this guy. Personally I've been avoiding the quests with NPC additionals, It feels like enforced narrative and half the wonder of a P&P is adding my own flare to narrative. That doesn't happen if I have some dude in burlap and a pitchfork following me and wants to watch me kill the dragon.

Value: It's too hard to get anything out, your effort feels wasted. Spend 4 hours playing and writing an SP to get gear, take 20 some odd pieces of gear to a Appraiser. ID them, end up with nothing for 4 hours minus a tiny amount of EXP that isn't relevant, col which has no value outside of rolls and badly rolled items. Quest items are relatively 'why bother', field boss rewards cannot be used in weird cases or by tier. The items are in itself designed to stop you from playing, because to participate you need these things in end game. Its a wall demanding blood for entry. Personally I've found more value in only story threads as of late, Mechanical based combat threads are neither exciting, interesting or worth my time.

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