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    • Shark

      Donations and Recognition!   12/22/2016

      Hello everyone! We are becoming a huge community and that doesn't come cheap. All staff here are volunteers and do this because they love the site. Right now, everything is paid out of pocket, by Erroneous. We would love for you to donate in order to help out with the site costs (i.e. Forum License, Domain Name, Hosting) so that we can keep Security and Forum Software up to date and possibly add some new features. If you do decide to donate, we have some fun, snazzy gifts of appreciation for you ;) Please message me (Shark) so we can get you the gifts of appreciation! We thank you for your support! Please use this link for more info   _____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ How To Donate Scroll to the bottom of the screen and click the donate button.
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      NOTABLE DONORS LIST Here is where we honor the donors who go above and beyond the call of Aincrad! Top Tier Donors! Percival Row  Teayre Nezumi Zandra Alice Arc Atzo Baldur Claim Corvo Dominion Genji Ignavus_veneficus Jomei Kaya Lee Lessa Mack Macradon Nocturn Persephone Piera Ruus Sarial Hawke Shi Unyeilding Vale To express our gratitude, here is a picture of the iconic duo for all you wonderful supporters!
    • Shark

      The SAO Staff Team!   02/21/2017

      Hello members of SAO-RPG!

      I'm sure most of you (if not some) have noticed or heard changes were made to the staff team. If you are applying to staff, you may have noticed that the application process has recently changed. This has all happened because of a reformation of the staff team and the way it operates. The staff now has separate teams for development. These teams are: Floor Creation Team [Floors, Quests/Events, Bosses], Systems & Clarifications Team, and Player Support Team.

      "Who is on these teams?" Well the answer to that lies below! Floor Team Systems & Clarifications Team Player Support Team * - Denotes Team Lead

      We also have a team to work on and develop the current systems but that team will search for its members and is not allowed to be applied to.

      Now you may be asking, "Shark, how does one apply to the Staff Team?" And I have but 1 simple answer!
      Go read this thread and it may answer all your questions!

      If you have any more questions, send me a PM and I will answer your questions about staff. (Only the format of teams and/or the application process)
    • Cardinal

      [Live] 2.5.0 Patch Notes   10/02/2017

      <<2.5.0 Patch Notes>> Main Guide: The main rules/tutorial section has been rewritten. Resources: A Resources section has been added. This contains reference material such as the SP/Level chart, Skills list, Enhancement list, individual profession stats, and a new FAQ. General Rule Changes: Word count requirement in Merchants & Shops section has been reduced to 100 from 150. Col logs are no longer required to include in journals. The Banker system will be used to track currency/materials going forward. New characters and Rebirth characters may choose a Starter Package containing a variety of basic equipment, col, materials, and/or potions. NK/KE tags have been removed. The table for SP gain based on the number of players in a thread has been removed. SP gain is now issued at 1 SP per 3 posts, up to the number of completed pages. (e.g. 3 SP for three pages, requires at least 9 posts) A Skill Refunding System has been added. Players may now pay a col cost to remove known skills and receive a refund of the invested SP. Rules on vanity items have been clarified. Health regeneration outside of combat has been adjusted to (10 * Tier) per post. Stealth and Stealth Detection no longer have a base rating for players. Both now use a LD roll plus a Stealth Rating/Stealth Detection modifier. NPCs and monsters still utilize a base rating (10 as a baseline for player-created mobs). 'Using cover' no longer adds to Stealth Rating. Low light or darkness conditions grant a +1 to Stealth Rating, down from +2. Switch has been added as a game mechanic (no longer a skill). Players may call for a Switch when landing a successful attack. If the Switching player also lands an attack, a Switch is performed and the two players may immediately swap hate values. Players are required to post their level, stats, equipment, skills, etc., in their first post in a thread. This should be a snapshot of your character and should not be changed after the initial post. Players are still allowed to declare their characters at a lower level or with fewer items than what they currently have, but may not claim items that have not been approved or were obtained in an unlocked thread. Turn order rules have been modified slightly to reflect the leniency of Boss Raid combat. Players may post in any order so long as each player and the enemy has gotten one action in a single round. Outside of Boss Raids, parties may have a maximum of 4 players. Combat with more than 4 players should follow a Group order similar to boss raids. When fighting multiple enemies, players must now make individual rolls for each mob. This applies to both making attacks against multiple enemies and multiple enemies making attacks. One roll no longer applies to/for all targets. The Running Away mechanic has been updated. Running away from combat now uses a LD roll with a set of situational modifiers. The col/material values and frequency in the loot table have been adjusted. Labyrinth searching rules have been adjusted. The map fragment system has been removed. Bonus rewards for scouting and defeating the field boss have been adjusted. Housing and Guild Halls have been completely revamped. PvP rules have been adjusted. Players must make an initiative roll when engaging in combat with other players. The extended Player Killing rules/restrictions have been removed. Rules on player cursor colors have been expanded. There is now a strike system for criminal infractions that would cause a player's cursor to turn orange. Killing a green player outside of a duel now results in a permanent orange cursor. An NPC Guard mechanic has been added. Orange players may now enter safe zones, but must stealth/run from guards in certain safe zones. NPC guards have a Stealth Detection rating equal to (Floor / 3), rounded down. Added more detail to character death rules. The RGQ system has been removed. Crafting Changes: Fishing as a profession has been removed. It is now a skill. The CD result chart has been adjusted across all professions (except Merchant). Good and Bad quality items have been removed from the CD result chart. Salvage chances have been adjusted. Alchemists now have a chance to salvage one or both materials when attempting to craft crystals. Crafting Die tools no longer have an effect. Consumables, familiars, housing, and some items still provide EXP and Crafting Attempt bonuses. The process of crafting Feasts has changed slightly. Cooks may now take 3 identical food items and spend two materials to combine them into a Feast. A Feast can be used in a thread to provide that enhancement to up to six players. Artisan craftable item types have been modified (Trinkets, Jewelry, Sculptures). The buffs they can provide are largely unchanged. Alchemist craftable item types have been modified (Salves, Potions, Crystals). The buffs they can provide are largely unchanged. Skill Changes: Extended Weight Limit Removed Ranks - 15 SP cost Now adds +3 Battle Ready Inventory slots Adjusted Mod: Large Pockets Now has 3 Ranks Cost set to 5/3/2 SP (10 total for Rank 3) Now increases single Battle Ready Inventory slots to 7/10/15 Removed 'Larger Pockets' and 'Largest Pockets' mods New Skill: Fishing Cost: 10 SP Effect: Use a dice roll to fish something up based on a natural CD result: Gatherer Now has a chance to yield 1-3 bonus materials based on a natural CD result Sneak & Hide Renamed to 'Hiding' Now grants +1 Stealth Rating per rank New Rank 3 Mod: Untraceable Cost: 9 SP Effect: Negates the effect of the Tracking skill against the user. New Rank 3 Mod: Blindside Cost: 9 SP Effect: Gain +2 Stealth Rating. Natural BD rolls of 9-10 reduce the target's accuracy by 1 for one turn when attacking from stealth. New Rank 5 Mod: Vanish Cost: 12 SP Cooldown: 5 Turns Effect: Allows the use of a post action to re-enter stealth while in combat. Getting a killing blow on an enemy allows Vanish to activate without using a post action. Search & Detect Renamed to 'Searching' Now also grants +1 Stealth Detection per rank Mod: Night Vision Now requires Rank 1, down from Rank 3 Cost reduced to 5 SP, from 9 Mod: Reveal Now also grants +2 LD when searching for Labyrinths and allows Labyrinth searches at 15 posts. Mod: Tracking Now requires Rank 3, down from Rank 5 Cost reduced to 12 SP, from 15 Tracking requirements for monsters, players, and NPCs have been clarified. Mod: Detect Cost reduced to 9 SP, from 15 No longer uses or affects Tracking. Now Grants +2 Stealth Detection. Grants +1 LD when searching for sub-dungeons and labyrinths Battle Healing Now recovers 1% of max HP per rank, instead of (Rank * 5 * Tier) Mod: Emergency Recovery Cost reduced to 10 SP, from 15 Now recovers 10% of max HP, down from 25% Block MIT gained is now set per rank: 5/8/12/18/25, down from 1 MIT per SP invested. New Rank 3 Mod: Shield Bash Cost: 10 SP Cooldown: 2 Turns Energy Cost: 10 Energy Effect: Make an attack with an equipped shield. On a hit, deals (Base * 10) damage, stuns the enemy for one turn, and applies paralyze/thorns/flame thorns enhancements present on the shield. Note: When calculating Base Damage for Shield Bash, Weapon Skills do not apply. Mod: Safe Guard Reworked into 'Rampart' Added a 5 turn cooldown Added energy cost of 8 Now uses a post action to reduce final damage that would be dealt to you by 25% (rounded down). Effect lasts until the beginning of your next turn. Energist Removed Ranks - 12 SP cost Now adds (5 * Tier) to total energy, instead of (Rank * 2) Howl Added energy cost of 10 Mod: Focused Howl Added energy cost of 8 Parry Increased SP cost to 12, up from 10 Added a 1 turn cooldown Energy cost has been fixed at 5, instead of (2 * enemies parried) 50% damage reduction has been specified to apply to the final damage (after mitigation). Effect applies to the next attack against the user, and cannot reduce damage from multiple enemies at once. Mod: Vengeful Riposte Increased SP cost to 12, up from 10 Added a 3 turn cooldown Damage reflected is now 50% of raw damage, up from 25% of damage taken. This damage can still be mitigated. Switch Skill has been removed. Two-Handed Weapons The +2 DMG bonus for 2H weapons has been clarified in the first rank of 2H weapon skills. All Weapons The Ferocity and Finesse mods have been condensed into a single description. You must still specify the weapon type when acquiring the mod(s). Mod: Ferocity Rank requirement set to 3, instead of ranging from 1-5 Now increases base damage of all sword arts for the chosen weapon by 1. Mod: Finesse Rank requirement set to 3, instead of ranging from 1-5 Now has 3 Ranks Cost adjusted to 5/3/2 SP (10 total for Rank 3), down from 15 at Rank 5 Now reduces energy cost of all sword arts for the chosen weapon by an amount equal to its rank. Mod: Quick Change Cooldown reduced to 3 turns, down from 5 Now allows the user to swap, equip, or unequip a weapon in their Battle Ready Inventory. Mod: Stamina Now reduces the energy cost of all attacks by 1. Heavy Armor Increased the amount of MIT gained to 8>12>18>25>35, up from 3>7>12>20>30 Mod: Athletics Bonus health increased to (15 * Tier), up from 15 Mod: Stonewall Bonus health has been adjusted to (15 * Tier), instead of equal to mitigation from other skills. Now also grants 10 MIT when wearing heavy armor Now also reduces damage taken from damage over time effects by 25% (rounded down) when wearing heavy armor. Light Armor Adjusted the amount of MIT gained to 5>8>12>18>25, down from 3>7>12>20>30 Mod: Athletics Bonus health adjusted to (10 * Tier), from 15 Familiar Mastery 'Accurate' now has 3 ranks. 'Assistant' now provides bonus EXP (crafting attempts at max profession rank) instead of CD. Meditation Removed Ranks - 8 SP cost Added a 5 turn cooldown Now recovers (3 * Tier) energy. Getting hit by an attack before the beginning of your next turn reduces the energy recovered to (2 * Tier). Survival Added 3 SP cost Increases out of combat health regeneration to (15 * Tier), instead of 20. Enhancement Changes: Life Steal has been renamed to Vampiric. The Crafting Die enhancement has been removed. Alchemist and Artisan item types for enhancements have been modified. Sword Art Changes: Multipliers have been simplified to a single number (x6) from the two-part formula (2x3). Several descriptions have been updated. Quest Changes: The 'Redemption' quest has been revamped. The level and repeatable restrictions have been adjusted to affect only the bonus SP rewards: The First Few Lessons Are Free The Second Lesson is Also Free The Third Lesson is Just As Free The Fourth Lesson is Actually Free The Venemous Warg Repeating the 'Earning a Living' quest now allows a player to change their profession. Changing professions will reset experience to 0. Repeat completions of the Earning a Living quest will only award bonus materials if the quest-taker is changing their profession. The following quests have been removed: «Witch of the West and the Three Treasures: T.M.H & S.B.» «Witch of the West and the Three Treasures: T.L.C.» «Witch of the West and the Three Treasures «The Falling of Tagas» Housing Changes: The cost and size of Player Housing is now determined by a 'plot size'. The plot size dictates how many room slots, yard slots, and stories a house can have as well as the initial cost when purchasing. Purchasing a PK-accessible home (outside of a safe zone) has an additional cost. Buffs from Guild Halls/Player Housing now comes from the type of room, rather than furniture. Certain rooms for Player Housing have upgrades. Player Housing buffs must be assigned to a player. Home owners may use the Housing Evaluation topic to re-assign a room's player(s) once every 30 days. New/Rebirth Character Changes: Players who have submitted a new or rebirth character journal for approval in the past 30 days are eligible to add one of the starting bundles. <<2.5 Update Survival Guide>> Skills: If you spent more than 15 SP on the Extended Weight Limit skill, refund any SP over 15. If you have spent less than 15 SP, the skill is inactive until a total of 15 is invested. If you spent more than 12 SP on the Energist skill, refund any SP over 12. If you have spent less than 12 SP, the skill is inactive until a total of 12 is invested. If you spent more than 8 SP on the Meditation skill, refund any SP over 8. If you have spent less than 8 SP, the skill is inactive until a total of 8 is invested. If you have the Parry skill, you must spend 2 SP to continue using it. Otherwise, it is inactive until a total of 15 is invested. If you have the Survival skill, you must spend 3 SP to continue using it. Otherwise, it is inactive until a total of 3 is invested. If you had the Switch skill, remove it and refund 10 SP. Mods: If you have the Detect mod, keep it and refund 6 SP. If you have the Tracking mod, keep it and refund 3 SP. If you have the Emergency Recovery mod, keep it and refund 5 SP. If you had Rank 1 or 2 of the Ferocity mod, lose it and receive a refund of the SP spent. If you had Rank 3 or 4 of the Ferocity mod, you must spend 6 or 3 SP to continue using it. Otherwise, it is inactive until a total of 15 is invested. If you spent more than 10 SP on the Finesse mod, refund any SP over 10. If you have the Large Pockets mod, you must spend 1 SP to continue using it. Otherwise, it is inactive until a total of 10 is invested. If you had the Larger Pockets mod, it becomes the new Large Pockets mod and you receive a refund of 2 SP. If you had the Largest Pockets mod, it becomes the new Large Pockets mod and you receive a refund of 5 SP. If you have the Night Vision mod, keep it and refund 4 SP. If you have the Vengeful Riposte mod, you must spend 2 SP to continue using it. Otherwise, it is inactive until a total of 12 is invested. Professions: If you had the Fishing profession, all EXP may be transferred to any other profession. If you had a Tool with the 'Crafting Die' enhancement, you may post it for re-evaluation with the Ambition or Crafting Attempt enhancement (item name/description may not change). If you retake the Earning a Living quest in order to change professions, your EXP resets to 0 for the new profession. Edit your existing shop thread with your new profession information. Housing: Existing Guild Halls and Player Housing have been removed. They may be repurchased through the Housing Evaluation template. Players who previously bought a home or hall have been reimbursed for the total col cost in their original housing application. If a guild had shared col lost due to the removal of a guild hall, PM the details to @Teion for review/reimbursement.
    • Aereth

      2.5.2 New Mechanic: Thread Invasion/Protected Threads   11/08/2017

      Hello Players,
      Once again your feedback is needed, so head over to the thread and tell us what you think. LINK  
Aereth

2.5.2 New Mechanic: Thread Invasions/Protected Threads

2.5.1 New Mechanic: Thread Invasions  

22 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you like the mechanic proposed below, or not?

    • I like it.
      16
    • I don't like it.
      6


Recommended Posts

Once again, I want to reach out to you, the playerbase to help me come up with things to spice up the RP on this site. Now that the patch for the PKing rules is almost ready to get out, I want to talk to you guys about the addition of a mechanic that I want to call "Thread Invasions".

Back in the old discussion thread some players liked the idea while others hated it. Now I've come up with something new (thank you @Itzal) that might fix the issues pointed out in the old thread regarding this matter.

--------------------------------------------------

Thread Invasion

Players are now allowed to enter other PP or SP threads where they are not invited in order to attack, scare, etc. other players. Initiating combat against another player outside of a duel must also begin with a similar initiative roll.

However there are several rules on invading other players threads:

  • After a Player has entered a PP or SP without permission there is a 3 thread Cooldown before this player can invade another thread.
    • Cooldown threads must be created after the 'Invasion' (Time Stamps) and must be tagged as such.
    • At your first post of an 'Invasion' you have to link your last 'Invasion' as well as the 3 Cooldown threads. Failing to do so, will result in the 'Invasion' to become invalid and deleted.
  • Invading players have to post at least (Max SP available)*20/3 rounded up posts to qualify for SP rewards.
    • Example: Player A invades the SP of Player B. The thread ends at 20 posts; this means Player A has to post at least 7 posts in order to qualify for SP rewards. (Player B always receives normal rewards)
      Example: Player A invades a PP of Player B and C. The thread is already very long and after the thread is done, it has 80 posts. So in order to qualify for SP rewards at least 27 posts must have been made by Player A (Player B and C always receive normal rewards)
  • Invaders do NOT qualify for Col rewards, no matter the amount of posts they do in an invaded thread.
  • RP combat only.
    • This means that no dice, stats and calculations are used. The combat only happens in the RP so please take care to avoid 'godmodding'
    • In case you feel like somebody is 'godmodding' in your thread, contact the Player Support Team and we will help you.
  • And most importantly: NO player can be killed this way without OOC permission of the other participants of the thread. There will be no exceptions made to this rule.

--------------------------------------------------

While this might seem like a cool idea to spice things up on a boring grinding/farming thread, it also comes with he risk of other players ruining really important moments in your RP. Thus I have thought about adding a new tag. 

The "Protected" or [PT] tag. If this tag is used in front of a thread it means that nobody can ever enter the thread without OOC permission.

Now I hear you say: "But Aereth. That is the same as with the old Private and Solo tags..." But let me explain further. 

In order to add the [PT] tag to your thread you must use a so called "Protected Thread Token" on your fist post. These tokens can be earned by something like this: After every x(3?) threads you receive a "Protected Thread Token" to use for protecting your important threads. 

This way players can enjoy the excitement that comes with invading threads, while also keeping their important moments to themselves and the ones they want to share them with. 

Sooooo. If you guys and gals like the idea, pleas vote with Yes, and if you don't like the idea, please vote with No and explain why you don't like it. Really helps me figuring out what the playerbase wants. 

Until that, see ya later.

Like promised all the tags from the previous thread:

 @Jomei  @Kisodeth @Eira @Sey  @Thorsten @Ryo @Paglikha @Kion @Vigilon @Lessa @Ssendom @Genji @Vale  @Endilix @Manta Gaul @Macradon @Hakai  @Seul  @Helios @Azide @Ruby @Opal

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Yes, I enjoy this idea. My concern comes from not using dice however. I feel this is for obvious reasons, and I don't personally have an idea for this problem yet but I will give it some thought 

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After catching up about the whole PK'ing situation finally I thought that this would be a good time to put in my own opinion in on the subject.

 

One of the biggest things that I think is necessary, which I like is the protection from being invaded. Having this makes sure lower leveled players don't have to be immediately concerned for someone hopping into their thread. Depending on how many threads this lasts for or levels, it'll give the players hopefully enough time to gather some early levels or even make some higher leveled friends to RP with as the story goes on.

For the invasion of a thread, since you're intruding on someone else's thread, I don't think rewards at the end of the thread should be handed out at all to the invader. This is just going to turn into a way to milk extra SP for invading someone one the first or second post to make sure to get the SP, thus adding incentive to do that every 3 threads. So if we remove this, players are going to do it strictly for the sake of story and to actually invade a thread, rather than doing it so they can get some extra SP, leveling up that player faster than usual.

 

Quote
  • RP combat only.
    • This means that no dice, stats and calculations are used. The combat only happens in the RP so please take care to avoid 'godmodding'
    • In case you feel like somebody is 'godmodding' in your thread, contact the Player Support Team and we will help you.
  • And most importantly: NO player can be killed this way without OOC permission of the other participants of the thread. There will be no exceptions made to this rule.

 

RP Combat only is the part that bothers me the most about this entire idea if I'm being blunt and honest. I understand players frown upon losing their progress because they got killed, and that this is to please the public, but what's the fun in invading a thread to "PK" if you have to get permission. That's like going up to a person and saying, "Excuse me ma'am but do you mind if I steal your purse and run away with everything you own?" Nobody would say yes to something like this and I feel adding this is defeats the entire purpose. Isn't the whole point of this patch supposed to be that PK'ing changes? The only thing that changes with this entire thing as far as I can see is that you can intrude someone's thread in the hopes to earn some extra SP to pump into other stats.

While protection threads should remain and non protected players can actually hire mercenaries now or bodyguards to keep them safe if they want, meaning protection guilds can actually be a thing with the intrusion feature. The player that is intruding should have a debuff on them called "Invading" upon entering a thread, and for the first maybe 3 posts of invading, they can't attack or have possibly reduced damage for the first players that disables them from one shotting them on the first attack. This way the player has time to respond and can choose Fight or Flight. The ability to run away is always and option and keep in mind that if you attack a player, you immediately turn orange. So if the player enters a safezone in time, they can actually escape the fight itself. Also to prevent one player from constantly being invaded over and over again by other people i.e. a PK guild targetting the player continuously, they should also have invasion protection for 3 threads to allow them a chance to do threads without a fear of being intruded upon again. This being said, RP'ing with a player that has this form of invasion protection does not protect others in the guild. It simply means that they can't be the target of the thread by other invaders.

 

All in all, I enjoy the work you guys are doing for players of all kinds, but making it so you need permission to act upon anything from the other person is counter productive in my eyes and kills the entire purpose of this. Like I said earlier, if I were to hop on my other account, I'd simply invade for the sake of getting some extra SP without having to put in as much work by jumping into a thread early. Feel free to point out if I made a mistake with any of my ideas here, I'm just trying to give my input on the subject.

 

EDIT: The point of SAO was that players were constantly living in fear. They were afraid of either dying to monsters, bosses, or PKers. Since there is no way to be killed with this by a player at all since it's RP combat only, there isn't any fear at all. If someone were to have joined my thread right now, the only thing that I fear is that it would extend the duration of the thread because that's another person I have to wait to post now. I don't have to worry about them attacking me and my character dying. Which is the reason why I added in 1-Shot Protection, this will last for 3 posts of all players that were originally in that thread. This guarantees that they will live for the next 3 posts, and can be left with a minimum of 1 health. If the attacker inflicted a source of DoT effect on them, at the end of the 3 turns, it would remove all negative effects to make sure you don't bleed out immediately upon it ending. Movement impairing effects on another hand do not last longer, they simply stall out the 1-Shot protection, or we can extend it to 5 posts, but then having to keep a player in place for 5 turns clearly is a lot of RNG in their favor. Overall, I think that for this to work we need to enable more protection upon being invaded to make it valid. If this doesn't get added, honestly I don't think we should even implement the invasion system.

 

Thanks for your time everyone!

Edited by Daeron

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Personally, I like the idea of requiring others' permission to kill. While nobody was safe in SAO, let's all remember that this is SAO-RPG, not SAO itself. When one player kills another, a player has taken all that the newly deceased had striven for and threw it away, making it all for naught. Nobody who wants their hard work doing all that posting to mean something wants to have the risk of being spontaneously murdered by some truly mean PKer. Nobody(Well, at least, in my opinion). RP combat only also makes sure that no-one gets killed so easily/rudely, especially without permission.

As for the invasions and protections, I have mixed feelings about it. See, If player A and player B were to make a string of threads that would be important to their characters(and they somehow couldn't think of any other threads to do in the meantime) and they had just used their PT on their previous thread, how would you think they would feel if that thread ended up being invaded? And that was only one example...

I currently haven't figured out whether I should vote yes or no just yet, but I believe we all need to think about this, and be considerate of others.

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I can see how thread invasion could be a cool idea, but it's still something I'd be against, very much against. Invading a thread is just annoying in so many ways, you might be in a big plot with someone and you're making threads to make it fan out, but suddenly, this guy shows up being all edgy and stuff, ruining whatever you were planning to do. Now, you could just go away from the thread and make a new one, but that's just bothersome.

Just my 0.02 dollars

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@Vigilon While I do understand your reasoning for saying this I feel that if the player-based community as a whole wants this to truly feel like SAO, I think that this implementation is completely necessary. But as I've seen this site grow for years, one thing hasn't changed, and that was that players never really expressed their fear for a playerkiller at any time. People are adjusted to the idea that most player killers only RP with other PK'ers, thus making them ignored. Even guilds look at PK'ers the same that they killed someone, yet I see people RP'ing with them all the time.

In any RPG where you can be PK'ed and Looted players usually squad up in case a player shows up to fight them (Runescape, WoW) on certain servers that's what they thrive for. Of course I see that we are a text based RPG, but still an RPG nonetheless. When was the last time a player you RP'ed with talked about why they don't want to RP in fear of a Player Killer. Now the only thing lower leveled players suddenly feel scared of is fighting higher level monsters with a high level player. Not at all the fact that the player could turn and kill them in one hit, nope it was the monster they feared. That's why if we add this, we can have players with a Bodyguard "Profession" and do nothing but help lower leveled players survive at low stages, and keep them safe from the player killers after their Protection ran out. In fact, Tanks could get Invasion Defense, a new potential skill for tanks to use for protection.

Quote

 

<<Invasion Defense>> Upon a player invading a thread and targeting a player without this skill, all players that are part of this invasion are coated with an aura, can only be damaged for a cap.

Adding this for Bodyguard/Tank players, would allow them to truly be a protector like they were hired for, and could give the player being protected relief that they are guaranteed not to die for 3 turns.

To make sure that not all players can get this to have this, could either become a profession on it's own that allows them to receive the skill that way, OR a player requires a certain amount of HP to unlock.

 

 

In other words, me bringing this idea is not me trying to say "I want players die", I'm simply saying that "Players should always be afraid of dying, though not being in that situation all the time." I doubt even if we release this, that a bunch of players would flow over to becoming an orange player just to kill someone, I believe however that if we want this to feel more lively, we should allow some sort of intrusion.

Edited by Daeron

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@Daeron

First of all, Vigilon is right.  People come here to role play and to create a story for a character they'd like to see in the world of Sword art Online.  Nobody wants their character to just suddenly die on them because someone else decides to play the villain.  I've seen so many people turn their character dark because they got 'bored', and quite recently watched a player assault someone else without permission, because they decided they wanted their character to be dark, rather than light.  In addition, players who put effort into their characters do not want to lose all that effort to a pk.  It drives people away, and quite frankly I understand that.  If someone killed my character off without my consent, I'd leave the site for good.  Attacking a character out of nowhere is fine because it invites character development.  Killing someone without asking them first however is something that will drive players away.

Secondly, this has already been discussed in another thread that we sent out to the community to discuss.  Players have made their inputs, discussed, and nearly everyone agreed with no killing without OOC permission.  The question we are asking here, is if you think the idea of invading a player's thread, with the options of tagging your thread as protected, is a good idea or not?

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@Itzal

I have added some changes to the buff in bold text. This new option to the buff is essentially a way of saying "I want to run" or "Yes, I agree to fight you." Also, I feel if we added in movement impairing effect limitations such as saying only one paralyze or stun of some sort may be effective on you throughout the entire duration of the effect. Meaning if you got stunned in the beginning, you can not be stunned again until this effect wears off or is removed.

Quote

 

<<Invasion Defense>> Upon a player invading a thread and targeting a player without this skill, all players that are part of this invasion are coated with an aura, limiting the amount of damage the player can take up to 20% of their current health. Upon the player retaliating by engaging in combat with any attacker, the buff wears off immediately. While this buff active, players protected by the buff can only be impaired movement one time throughout the entire duration. 

Adding this for Bodyguard/Tank players, would allow them to truly be a protector like they were hired for, and could give the player being protected relief that they are guaranteed not to die for 3 turns.

To make sure that not all players can get this to have this, could either become a profession on it's own that allows them to receive the skill that way, OR a player requires a certain amount of HP to unlock.

 

 

Edited by Daeron

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There are two issues I can see there.  For one, if we put in that players being assaulted have the option of running, that's relying on the dice roller, which can be very fickle to many players, returning to the issue of players who don't want their characters dying being assaulted in various threads because players can invade whenever they'd like.  While it lessens the chance of it actually happening, I can name a few people who would leave the site if players had permission to jump in and attack, with the chance of their character dying.

The second one is that even if they can only stun/paralyze once, if they paralyze or stun them before the other can do anything, they can't defend themselves.  While we could change this so that players can only stun/paralyze a post after the defending player does something, I really like the rp combat and this is why:

This is indeed a role playing site, and while the roller and numbers do exist since this is like SAO (which we do wish for this site to be as cannon as possible while being fair at the same time), this is a site to create stories, and not kill other players for fun.  That's why I like the invasion rules as it is.  With needing OOC permission to kill the players, invading becomes something strictly for creating a story.  It adds options for role play, and opens possibilities for character development.  You can make invasion threads go however way you'd like in a rp combat mode, but using the rollers for the combat removes your ability to control what happens.  It may make the defending player appear pathetically weak despite their level (or vice versa) and that player may feel discouraged OOC, or upset and walk away.  While we want to make this site cannon, we also want to keep it as a role playing forum, and make it fun for everyone. 

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1 hour ago, Itzal said:

There are two issues I can see there.  For one, if we put in that players being assaulted have the option of running, that's relying on the dice roller, which can be very fickle to many players, returning to the issue of players who don't want their characters dying being assaulted in various threads because players can invade whenever they'd like.  While it lessens the chance of it actually happening, I can name a few people who would leave the site if players had permission to jump in and attack, with the chance of their character dying.

The second one is that even if they can only stun/paralyze once, if they paralyze or stun them before the other can do anything, they can't defend themselves.  While we could change this so that players can only stun/paralyze a post after the defending player does something, I really like the rp combat and this is why:

This is indeed a role playing site, and while the roller and numbers do exist since this is like SAO (which we do wish for this site to be as cannon as possible while being fair at the same time), this is a site to create stories, and not kill other players for fun.  That's why I like the invasion rules as it is.  With needing OOC permission to kill the players, invading becomes something strictly for creating a story.  It adds options for role play, and opens possibilities for character development.  You can make invasion threads go however way you'd like in a rp combat mode, but using the rollers for the combat removes your ability to control what happens.  It may make the defending player appear pathetically weak despite their level (or vice versa) and that player may feel discouraged OOC, or upset and walk away.  While we want to make this site cannon, we also want to keep it as a role playing forum, and make it fun for everyone. 

While you say that you wish to make this site cannon and keeping it as a RP community, as far as I'm concerned I'm bringing up legitimate solutions. The only opinion you have given so far is that it's because "Players don't wanna die." That's not a fair reasoning, while it may be true, even in CANNON players didn't want to die. In fact I believe I'm being more than fair by offering an alternative to make it so there is methods to avoid being invaded. I get it, nobody wants to lose progress-- However, in SAO players died with no regards to their fears. I believe that I can help develop this system to make it as fair as possible for EVERYONE exactly like you want, but in order for that to happen we have to include PKers.

By removing the ability to kill anyone, we are then making it pointless for PKers to have their title. SAO is a real life simulation where you can die if you are killed. I'm not saying that we should allow everyone to die, hence I'm giving an option of avoiding invades by introducing this new Bodyguard profession. Also about the part where you mentioned that players shouldn't be able to be stunned while they are under the effect, that could be arranged. That or we could start the protection aura at 3 turns, and then as the bodyguard levels up the buff could become better, so at max rank Bodyguard, the buff could be extended to a full 5 turns as well as including better roll chances for players to escape, or even giving shields to soak damage up before it actually affects their health.

By saying that you don't want to include the dice, we also throwing out the system that we have worked so hard to develop. While I agree that leaving it up to the dice is a gamble, that's why the buff lasts for multiple turns, as well as providing players with dice modifiers that improve their chances at dodging the situation. I'm offering a way to allow many things to happen:

  • We get a new profession called Bodyguard added, that can be used to form Protection Guilds.
  • We allow Player Killers and PK Guilds to organize attacks on a player as well as keeping it balanced so they aren't guaranteed to work on someone.
  • We also offer counter-play to being invaded giving the players being invaded breathing room to decide what their next action is going to be.

I really suggest that you read through this because aside from saying "Players don't wanna die and lose their belongings" isn't much of a solution to this. I'd rather work with information given and make a system better and easier to use for the public, and instead allow options for all players and playstyles to work.

@Itzal

Edited by Daeron

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Not feeling too great, so my mind won't let me come up with a detailed response.

I like the idea, I do a alot.

The only things I am iffy about are the Cooldown and PT Token idea. Yes, both are good ideas, I just feel they could be a little tough to regulate. The cooldown may not be that tough, especially if the player has to log the cooldown themselves. However, rewarding tokens may serve to be a bit tougher. 

All other ideas about the actual mechanics, I love. 

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I might as well give my two cents about it after the dust has settled from my behavior. I am simply not for Thread Invasions for a couple of reasons:

  1. It forces people to change their stories on the fly when they just want to write a story, and with some stories especially when it comes to romance stories its rather annoying to have someone come in and beat the living hell out of someone or just be there to annoy you. Yes, limiting rewards is a price to pay but bothering a persons story is another.
  2. We shouldn't encourage people to come into threads to annoy another person, to me people would abuse this sort of thing and do it 24/7 in my opinion because they're bored.
  3. Lastly, whats the point of having the SP and PP tag if other people can just invade.

The only thing that can make me for this is if we include a PT tag and that tag alone, I dont want to spend tokens I dont want to hire a body guard. I just want to forge my stories and have them not interrupted.

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I have to add my opinion on it I guess.

I believe the idea itself would be cool, but I am only on the side of it if we have one slight change to the entire thing. 

  • Remove the system of these stupid little tokens. If I am going through an important questline or character development stage, I will be damned If I get interrupted by some other player just trying to be an ahole. Instead, I advise we make it so that any thread without a PT tag can be invaded. This way, important quests that must be taken solo, important adds to storyline and anything that players could want specific in a thread aren't screwed up. 
  • Also, ensure that if we have a cool-down phase, make sure they are 3 FINISHED thread. 

 

@Aereth

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Honestly, @Daeron has already mirrored a lot of the sentiments I expressed in the last thread, so I don't really feel that I would need to rehash that. But I do want to go on record as saying that I pretty much agree with the idea that SAO, as a canon entity, was a social experiment created by a madman, and rooted in fear.

Now, in terms of this invasion idea, to keep to the proper point of this thread, I love the idea. I agree that it needs to be regulated somehow. I'm not completely against the token idea, but it's clear that some people are, so I'd like to offer some alternatives:

  • Threads based in safe zones are always protected. The vast majority of story based threads happen in safe zones. Your romance, your character development, your incredibly important friendship or guild moments, boss/raid/quest planning. These all tend to happen in safe zones. So I propose that a thread always be PT if in a safe zone, no tokens necessary. And then if you want things like protected quests or romance on a nice beach or something, you can save your tokens for those special, not safe zone, moments.
  • Invasions should be tied to skills. I do like the idea of where Daeron is going with the bodyguard thing. But if we're going to be making skills to protect against invasions, why not base invasions on skills as well? Do you want to actively hunt someone down? Well, you need tracking to properly interrupt a thread and hunt someone. Do you want to stalk someone from a distance or catch them unawares? You need stealth to properly do this. Make things like tracking and stealth a requirement for invasions, and this creates a few benefits:
    1. If someone has to have a skill to invade, they won't be a random newbie. Especially if you lock invasions behind a high rank mod. K1r1t0 can't jump into your thread until he's level 10 due to skill requirements, and so he either isn't as bad as everyone thinks or he got bored and probably left before that point, realizing that being an edgelord won't get him any finished threads, and thus enough SP to get the skills.
    2. It creates more drama than just, "I walk out into the field where you are talking because I feel like it." Your character has instead been tracking or stealthing to achieve their goals. This sets up a better story than just a random interruption.
    3. In the case of tracking specifically, it means your character has a purpose in doing so, and has met and actively interacted with your character before. The rules of tracking being what they are means that you won't have Joe Blow interrupting and you have no idea who each other is. You'll have actively interacted somewhere before and thus created a basic story and character interaction.
  • Create PVP centric content. Sure, duels exist. But if you want to have players at each other's throats, give them reasons to kill each other. And they don't have to be inherently PVP based, like battlegrounds, but think of the reward for the Christmas event in SAO. That item that could bring people back to life, and until Kirito ran in and took it all for himself it created a lot of PVP based incentives, with multiple guilds fighting to take the prize. Give players something to fight for that might alleviate the idea of players interrupting each other's stories, and instead has a story based on pitting players (even unintentionally) against each other for specific reasons.
    • And for the sake of argument, these can be augmented with RP combat, so that way people don't actually have to die. Staff just has to make sure they mediate these types of situations, perhaps by awarding the best, and most fair, writers with the prize, provided players themselves can't come to a reasonable story conclusion on their own.

And look, I want to say one thing, especially about the idea of RP combat. There are some bad RPers out there. There are godmodders and meta gamers and just... it can be the worst sometimes. But we can't let bad apples ruin the bunch. I think that these ideas are solid concepts that staff is using to innovate and meet good middle grounds. We have to trust that the people we see most active on this site are capable players, writers, and can be fair and adaptable. And if we ruin that, then I'll be the first to cry that there should be more changes. But without change, we're never going to know which side the grass is actually greener on. So I think ideas like this are a good test of how fun this game can really be, and from more of a writer standpoint than just focusing on the numbers game.

If done properly, invasions can be yet another tool to writing interesting, dramatic stories that we might otherwise ignore because we're too afraid to break out of our own shells or write outside the box. And like every tool, it might need sharpening or refinement, but just because you found it rusty doesn't mean it's not ever going to be worth it without a little polish.

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So i figuted i might as well poke my head into this

So i'm with @Vigilon and @Itzal in that i think, while the invasion thread it a cool idea and could lead to some interesting character interactions, the idea that anyone could just enter your thread and PK you is really offputting. Now, i do understand and acknowledge that the fear within SAO was that death was everywhere, from Pkers to mobs, so the inclusion on pker invasion is to reinforce this idea. 

However, and this is purely my opinion, i feel its something something too risky. At the end, his is a Role playing text game, and to put so much effort into a character only to have them killed off by someone else, for their character development isn't something anyone enjoys. You put endless hours into the characters personality, appearance, social life only to have it all stopped by someone else. Their character continues, while you're forced to start from scratch. If one of my characters was killed like this, i'd probably just leave the site purely out of frustration that i spent so much time only for someone elses 'fun' to take it away. I understand it takes away from the source, but at the end of the day, it's a text based website and doesn't have to mimic the anime in every aspect. 

 

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@Daeronand I have talked on the Discord for some time and he has set up another thread where he promotes all of his ideas regarding the whole PKing issue (where the hotfix is about to drop in a matter of hours, days, years...) as well as his ideas how to cooperate "free PKing" with the thread invasion idea. I strongly reccomend to check the thread out and give your opinions on that matter. After I'm done with that post I will also share my thoughts on his ideas. 
So have a LINK to his thread and be sure to check it out!

@Endilix Thanks for the great input on the matter! 

  • Threads based in safe zones are always protected. 
    • Self explaining and I love it. 
    • Earlier today I was also talking to him on Discord and he showed me an amazing game concept that I thought I have to share here. 
      He took a lot of his ideas from the game EVE Online and the idea of Emergent Gameplay. That basically means, that if you want a living, breathing world, you want to create content that has borders, but otherwise allows players to create their own challenges within a reasonable frame. EVE Online does this by having the most rare things out in dangerous space, but allowing players to play the entire game locked away in a safe zone.
      So maybe we could even extend that protected zone from just safe zones on every floor to a general invasion prohibition on floors 1-5 + all other normal safe zones on all floors.
  • Invasions should be tied to skills.
    • I also like that idea very very much. Gives stealth more usability besides being all edgy and stuff. Tracking mod would finally become somewhat useful. I like I like.
  • Create PVP centric content.
    • Oooooh baby, how right you are. But worry not. As soon as this thread invasion thing is either out and released, or ditched and forgotten I will get to that. I have already talked to some players about that and I want to present it to you guys as fast as possible. (AFTER this thread is done. xD)

@Eatos It seems like you somehow missed the point. This thread is just about the topic of thread invasions WITHOUT actual player killing. The last topic I set up in this section was about the PKing issue on 2.5, and we came to the conclusion that we should never allow players to kill other players without their consent. This hotfix will go out as soon as I get green light from the GM's (They need to check wording, grammar etc.)

@Vigilon, @Jomei and @Morgenstern 

About cooldown and tokens:
Yeah, of course it adds some work to the players as well as the Player Support team, but I feel like the mechanic with the tokens would be the easiest thing to track tbh. If somebody wants to invade, they need to take care everything is correct and they have 3 (or god knows how many, the 3 I wrote was just a suggestion) FINISHED threads that took place AFTER their last invasion. (these threads would of course have to be tagged as such threads in order to keep track of them.) But then its easy to check because time stamps on threads never lie.

Otherwise I could suggest something like this:

  • Players once again have full control over their RPs and can state in their journal/profile if they are open for thread invasions.

Just saying that this takes away the purpose of the whole mechanic, since players could do that right now even without that patch. xD

And last but not least, @Macradon and @Ruby

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about why you don't like that idea. You guys have some strong arguments, but thats what those Protection Tokens would be there for. You can protect your really important threads as much as you like (we can even talk about getting 1 Token every 2 threads). And if we add the ideas of @Endilix with using actual skills and the tracking/sneaking skill I'm really thinking that we can use this mechanic in a way to improve the RP experience on the site. 

Additionally to that: If we implement the mechanic and it gets obvious that it doesn't work and that players hate it, we can still push out a hotfix to get back to old rules. (That totally is not happening right now with the 2.5.1 hotfix for 'free PK's for everybody' rule. xD)

And to close that part of my reply: 
I don't want to think that all invaders will do that just to annoy or bother anybody. I do want to put my trust into the community and say that they will use the mechanic to ENHANCE the RP experience and not to destroy it. And if I'm proven wrong, *insert stuff from a couple of lines above* We can still kill the mechanic off if it doesn't work out. 

 

 

Soooooooo. Now that I've replied to all of you guys and gals (Don't worry I'll get to your thread @Daeron) I wanna present you with a couple of choices on how to continue with the development of that idea:

  • Do you guys want me to flesh out the idea with the tokens
  • Do you want me to ditch tokens and start working on:
  • Or do you want me to throw the idea away. (Don't think that's gonna happen with 11 Yes and 5 No votes, but still. xD)

 

Be sure to let me know, AND be sure to check out Dareon's thread with his ideas. Until that, see ya next time. xD

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6 minutes ago, Aereth said:

@Daeronand I have talked on the Discord for some time and he has set up another thread where he promotes all of his ideas regarding the whole PKing issue (where the hotfix is about to drop in a matter of hours, days, years...) as well as his ideas how to cooperate "free PKing" with the thread invasion idea. I strongly reccomend to check the thread out and give your opinions on that matter. After I'm done with that post I will also share my thoughts on his ideas. 
So have a LINK to his thread and be sure to check it out!

@Endilix Thanks for the great input on the matter! 

  • Threads based in safe zones are always protected. 
    • Self explaining and I love it. 
    • Earlier today I was also talking to him on Discord and he showed me an amazing game concept that I thought I have to share here. 
      He took a lot of his ideas from the game EVE Online and the idea of Emergent Gameplay. That basically means, that if you want a living, breathing world, you want to create content that has borders, but otherwise allows players to create their own challenges within a reasonable frame. EVE Online does this by having the most rare things out in dangerous space, but allowing players to play the entire game locked away in a safe zone.
      So maybe we could even extend that protected zone from just safe zones on every floor to a general invasion prohibition on floors 1-5 + all other normal safe zones on all floors.
  • Invasions should be tied to skills.
    • I also like that idea very very much. Gives stealth more usability besides being all edgy and stuff. Tracking mod would finally become somewhat useful. I like I like.
  • Create PVP centric content.
    • Oooooh baby, how right you are. But worry not. As soon as this thread invasion thing is either out and released, or ditched and forgotten I will get to that. I have already talked to some players about that and I want to present it to you guys as fast as possible. (AFTER this thread is done. xD)

@Eatos It seems like you somehow missed the point. This thread is just about the topic of thread invasions WITHOUT actual player killing. The last topic I set up in this section was about the PKing issue on 2.5, and we came to the conclusion that we should never allow players to kill other players without their consent. This hotfix will go out as soon as I get green light from the GM's (They need to check wording, grammar etc.)

@Vigilon, @Jomei and @Morgenstern 

About cooldown and tokens:
Yeah, of course it adds some work to the players as well as the Player Support team, but I feel like the mechanic with the tokens would be the easiest thing to track tbh. If somebody wants to invade, they need to take care everything is correct and they have 3 (or god knows how many, the 3 I wrote was just a suggestion) FINISHED threads that took place AFTER their last invasion. (these threads would of course have to be tagged as such threads in order to keep track of them.) But then its easy to check because time stamps on threads never lie.

Otherwise I could suggest something like this:

  • Players once again have full control over their RPs and can state in their journal/profile if they are open for thread invasions.

Just saying that this takes away the purpose of the whole mechanic, since players could do that right now even without that patch. xD

And last but not least, @Macradon and @Ruby

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about why you don't like that idea. You guys have some strong arguments, but thats what those Protection Tokens would be there for. You can protect your really important threads as much as you like (we can even talk about getting 1 Token every 2 threads). And if we add the ideas of @Endilix with using actual skills and the tracking/sneaking skill I'm really thinking that we can use this mechanic in a way to improve the RP experience on the site. 

Additionally to that: If we implement the mechanic and it gets obvious that it doesn't work and that players hate it, we can still push out a hotfix to get back to old rules. (That totally is not happening right now with the 2.5.1 hotfix for 'free PK's for everybody' rule. xD)

And to close that part of my reply: 
I don't want to think that all invaders will do that just to annoy or bother anybody. I do want to put my trust into the community and say that they will use the mechanic to ENHANCE the RP experience and not to destroy it. And if I'm proven wrong, *insert stuff from a couple of lines above* We can still kill the mechanic off if it doesn't work out. 

 

 

Soooooooo. Now that I've replied to all of you guys and gals (Don't worry I'll get to your thread @Daeron) I wanna present you with a couple of choices on how to continue with the development of that idea:

  • Do you guys want me to flesh out the idea with the tokens
  • Do you want me to ditch tokens and start working on:
  • Or do you want me to throw the idea away. (Don't think that's gonna happen with 11 Yes and 5 No votes, but still. xD)

 

Be sure to let me know, AND be sure to check out Dareon's thread with his ideas. Until that, see ya next time. xD

No that is NOT as much as you like, if it truly was as much as you like then we wouldn't need a token system anyways. I am strong for my stance on this, its have the tag be free or I simply I am just not for it.

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On 10/11/2017 at 7:30 PM, Ruby said:

No that is NOT as much as you like, if it truly was as much as you like then we wouldn't need a token system anyways. I am strong for my stance on this, its have the tag be free or I simply I am just not for it.

^ That :v

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